[AstroBobber]

Does anyone have experience with both? Wilber’s is having a 10% sale and shipping seems quite cheap and I don’t pay sales tax on it. So 640 seems to be total shipped $800 and 643 seems to be total shipped $1400.
Honestly, money isn’t an issue and this bike will be with me for a long time. But, is 643 still too much for this bike? The cartridge sticks out a bit I can’t tell if that is ugly or awesome lol any thoughts? Will 643 give me years of better suspension tuning or is the 640 more than enough and I’m just paying to get the better one for pretty much no reason?
thx

 

[atomsplitter]

How important is compression damping to you? That's the difference between these two models. The higher end unit allows you compression damping rate adjustment. Other than that it's the same unit as the 640. Do you need the ability to adjust the rate the shock compresses under load or can you live with a factory setting for that feature and use only preload and rebound adjustability for comfort? If I was needing the absolute most adjustability then the 643 makes the most sense. If on the other hand you only need to worry about keeping the unit from bottoming out and have no problem using just preload to do that, then the 643 is way over kill. How comfortable are you with suspension tuning? If I were to make a recommendation it would be this, for the lower price of the 640 you can try it out and if it doesn't suit you down to the ground, sell it and buy the 643.

 

[AstroBobber]

Thx for chiming in atom. I’m not a suspension expert but I do want to get better at it and compression would be something I’d like. My nitrons (not bobber) had compression and I would think most quality shocks would include it. Maybe w the bobber ones it’s bc the shock is so small? Unsure why it’s uncommon with these.

Id rather not buy 640 and then want to sell it that would suck. Lose $300 on selling it used then buy the 643 not on sale then you’re in for $2,000 total. I guess the 643 instantly would be a hedge on that happening while guaranteeing that I have a shock that’ll be too for a long time. Hmm..

 

[Tony101]

I know that Wilbers is good stuff but, for the price of that 643 you could probably get front and rear from Nitron or K-Tech. Both good quality kit.

 

[AstroBobber]

2022 bobber comes with Showa front suspension.. from my understanding of Showa, they make quality parts. Is this not true?

 

[atomsplitter]

Showa is good stuff, however the forks sourced for the Bobber aren't top shelf kit. There are a couple ways to improve the front end suspension with the 47mm Showa's. The cheapest is to simply replace the fork oil with some higher viscosity oil. Another option is a better set of springs (i.e. progressive wind). If you go that route then spend the few extra bucks to get the preload adjuster caps. I went with fully adjustable internals from Matris (the only ones I'm aware of to date that make full emulator sets for the Showa forks). Matris kit came with springs rated for my weight and correct viscosity oil. The thumbwheel adjusts the preload and the allen key adjusts rebound in the right leg and compression damping in the left leg.

On my T-120 Bonny I changed the fork springs and added the preload caps and left the internals and fork oil weight unchanged. Really improved the handling and comfort on that bike:

 

[derchef62]

I had Wilbers 640 fitted on my 2017 Bobber 2 years ago and happy ever since, I do not need an adjustable shock on that bike: it does not carry heavy loads (and never a pillion), different story on my travel bikes

 

[lopsided]

@AstroBobber what did you end up with? I wanted to chime in that the difference with 640/643 is not just adjust-ability; having the separate compression reservoir has other performance benefits. Check out a book like Race Tech's Suspension Bible for some info there.

FWIW where I sit now I would recommend Nitron TVT front and R2 or R3 rear, and get them from a place in the UK to take advantage of the exchange rate and avoid the import bump from a US importer. For example, Demon Tweeks in the UK has great prices and are an official Nitron dealer; hit up Mark over there ([email protected]) if you're interested.

I have Matris F20K front and Wilbers 640 rear in my '21 Speedmaster but after being a bit disappointed in a few ways there I'm now in the Nitron camp (got that setup for my Ninja 400 track bike from Demon Tweeks).

@atomsplitter what was your install experience like with the Matris F20k cartridges? I had some fitment issues that required (a) shortening the bolt on the rebound side and (b) latheing the inside of the oil lock piece on the compression side - on my '21 Speedmaster. I was really surprised since neither issue was in the incredibly terse instructions. Language barrier and timezone issues prevented any real resolution there on the Matris side, and the retailed I bought from wasn't able to help, so I'm super curious to know if anyone else had any issues there.

 

[AstroBobber]

I haven’t gotten anything yet. I ride it around town and find the suspension to be fine for now. I definitely find the front end to be quality given my weight and given how annoying the process apparently is. As a matter of fact, I’d be more open to downgrading the front end performance to springers for the look of them but that probably won’t happen either since nobody makes them for the fat tire bobber.
I like the idea of Nitron r3 although I wasn’t impressed with the nitrons for my speed twin and actually enjoyed the speed twin better when I reverted to OEM shocks, which is odd. Maybe I just don’t know a good suspension.
At a quick glance, the r3 on demon tweeks is $1,244 and ajcycles it is $1,099, after UK shipping and import I don’t see how that could possibly be beneficial financially but maybe I’m missing something lmk

 

[lopsided]

As far as liking/not liking, I wonder if it was a matter of clickers and spring rates, maybe those could be adjusted better for your weight/bike weight/riding style..

The part numbers are a PITA TBH.
- Use Nitron UK site (USA is missing late model Bobber ?!), go to "Buy Online", choose the right shock for your bike, go to checkout, you will eventually see a page like this:

- Put that "Code" into Demon Tweek's search, you will see the non VAT price of USD $829 (Shipping is about US$56):

Be assured that these guys are legit, they have a phone number they answer to and after placing your order they have you fill out a sheet with your weight (gear included) and riding type. I found them from Nitron's dealer listings.

If you feel better working with a US retailer, more power to you, honestly. I had this debate with Beemershop who is the only Wilbers dealer in the US. Honestly, I had great support directly from Wilbers and I'm the type that would prefer as "close to the source" as possible, which in the case of Nitron is a UK dealer. I would have ordered directly from Nitron but their UK site won't ship to the US and the US site is charging an arm and a leg, no doubt due to import hassles.

 

[AstroBobber]

I did what you said and found the same shock. Problem is, this shock doesn't actually fit the bobber. If you put your motorcycle in, demon-tweeks even says it doesn't fit. Just look at the reservoir, it is the wrong orientation for the bobber. Nitron has the shock at $972, I'm unsure how any company would be $150 less. Anyway, says it doesn't fit, and you can even search demon-tweeks for the 2021 bobber and they have no matching shocks at all. I appreciate the tip though

when I ordered my nitrons from AJcycles, there was a small issue, they contacted nitron and figured it out and refunded me some $ directly, didn't have to do anything. Even if the price is true, which it doesn't seem to be the right shock but either way, something to be said for $150 extra for that peace of mind

 

[lopsided]

Um that model is listed as the correct one from Nitron's own fitment tool. Seems like that is the closest possible source of truth. If we really wanted to have fun we could turn this into a wager, let's call Nitron sales this week and find out who's right? 😀

IMO these website pics are the least trustworthy of anything.

The fitment tool from anything but Nitron's site is also questionable IMO. If you trust Nitron's fitment tool, ordering that exact model from anywhere is not really a risk, again IMO.

There are actual humans over at DT who you can call and talk with, that's exactly what I did before ordering.

We all have our preferences, no sense trying to convince one another. Glad we both found what works for us!

 

[AstroBobber]

It is the closest possible source of truth, on Nitron's site that code is right lol
If the picture is wrong, then their "does this fit your bike" tool is also wrong. Just seems odd to trust them with getting the shock right then.

Also, the description says this:
The Nitron Race shock is designed exclusively for competition or track biased riding use, and is available as a 2 way (rebound and compression adjustable) or 3 way (rebound and high speed/low speed compression adjustable) adjustable shock absorber.

The 2-way is the R2 and the 3-way is the R3, so when you choose the R3 option later, that is probably where the $100 or so you think you're saving is hidden.
I emailed them for a quote for the R3 though, I'll let you know what it ends up being.

I trust you that they are good, I have no dog in this fight man and I'm definitely not trying to convince anyone to do anything. You give me too much credit lol

 

[lopsided]

Cheers mate, just trying to help after many experiences with trying to figure out the truth with fitment of various parts on various bikes and running into issues with pictures, descriptions, and fitment tools across the board.... quite the frustration!

I'm going to email A&J since they have an inaccuracy, as they are listing the R2/R3 as compatible with the Speedmaster which they are not.

For a brief price comparison on the R3 in USD without VAT / sales tax, or shipping,

• Nitron UK site is USD$ 968
• Nitron USA doesn't list it at all(!)
• A&J (not an official Nitron dealer) is USD$1100
• TW Suspension Tech (not an official Nitron dealer) is USD$ 826 (w/o VAT)
• Demon Tweeks (an official Nitron dealer) is USD$ 829 (w/o VAT)

so yeah Nitron UK is more expensive, I'm not really surprised there personally.

Here's the complete part list for Bobber and Speedmaster 21+ for Nitron shocks and cartridge kits:

 

[AstroBobber]

What shock do you use? 643?

 

[lopsided]

640 on my Speedmaster, it's okay. Wish I could get the 643/R3 on the SM.

Found out after the fact that the 640 is emulsion type, so it's not as high performance as Matris / Nitron. Not sure which type the Ohlins is..

 

[atomsplitter]

Per Ohlin's: Monotube high pressure gas type of shock absorber with internal reservoir in the main body

 

[Margus]

****, you see the most civilised internet "fights" of the whole world wide web in this forum. Truly a breath of fresh air!

 

[Sticks]

****, you see the most civilised internet "fights" of the whole world wide web in this forum. Truly a breath of fresh air!

I concur good sir!!🤣🤣

 

[atomsplitter]

@atomsplitter what was your install experience like with the Matris F20k cartridges? I had some fitment issues that required (a) shortening the bolt on the rebound side and (b) latheing the inside of the oil lock piece on the compression side - on my '21 Speedmaster. I was really surprised since neither issue was in the incredibly terse instructions. Language barrier and timezone issues prevented any real resolution there on the Matris side, and the retailed I bought from wasn't able to help, so I'm super curious to know if anyone else had any issues there.

Sorry for the late reply, I had Monkey Moto in Argyle, TX fit the emulators when I ran into the too long bolt problem. They indicated the same thing you describe, the kit wasn't really made for the DIY mechanic and needed a professional touch.