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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
How did the programming go? Did you do a custom map? Went for DNK tune myself and do not regret it at all.
The programming itself was flawless. My only goal today was to make sure everything worked and I could successfully reprogram the ECU. I also verified I could make the cruise control work again after the reprogramming.

The map I used was from a guy on the Internet that does a lot of YouTube videos. I can't complain as it was free and he was kind enough to post it.

It works, but the throttle is snatchy AF and there is a very rough area from 3k-4k RPM. Also I can smell it's way too rich at start-up and most of the closed-loop area.

I learned a great deal before I even began just by loading his map and comparing it to the 31091 map which I believe is stock for my bike. I anticipated most of these problems just from looking at the numbers.

Pity you can't read the current program and save it before overwriting it. I would have liked to verify what I started with.

I'm going to start from scratch and make small changes as I go. Next Spring I'll try to find a proper dyno and tuner to verify what I've done. "Seat of the pants" dyno testing is rarely accurate, but it will do for now :)

I think most users would be well-advised to seek professional help but I'm a dyed-in-the-wool DIY'er and I crave a deeper understanding. Usually that requires several failures before success.

When I get something I'm happy with I'll post it up here for everyone. Could be a while though, it's starting to get COLD here in Colorado.
 

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Yeah it sounds like an off-the-shelf map might not work as well for you as it did for me, with your altitude and weather concerns. The DNK tune only cost me 250, was a 5 minute deal and the bike ran near-perfect. The average dyno tune cost at least twice as much. I wish you you the best with your tuning efforts!
 

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Pity you can't read the current program and save it before overwriting it. I would have liked to verify what I started with.
Are you saying you can't see the stock map?
It can be downloaded from the links provided by the developer of TuneECU. With that as a starting point, you should be able to play around as much as you want and then simply overwrite with the stock map if not satisfied.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Are you saying you can't see the stock map?
It can be downloaded from the links provided by the developer of TuneECU. With that as a starting point, you should be able to play around as much as you want and then simply overwrite with the stock map if not satisfied.
Sure, that's exactly what I've done. However there is no way to verify that is actually what you started with. Maybe the factory has an updated map that hasn't been published, or what if you bought your bike used and you have no idea what map is currently installed?

I'm just saying it's stupid that you can't retrieve the current program from the ECU with the Bluetooth dongle.

I don't know if it's possible with a wired connection but I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere. From everything I've read it sounds like it's impossible to read the current program for a '22 Bobber using TuneECU.

Not a huge deal, just seems kinda dumb. Maybe it was done specifically so you couldn't reverse engineer maps that people have for sale and "protect" in TuneECU?
 

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Triumph designed the ECU firmware on purpose to stop you reading the maps. It's a Euro 5 compliance, anti-tamper thing aimed at stopping you messing with the emissions etc.
I agree however that it's totally stupid. Anyone with a computing / software background will know that best practice is to make a backup copy of where you're starting from, modify the file then if all goes ****-up you can easily revert back to your starting point.
It's much the same story as to why Triumph force the ECU to compare the temperature readings of a few sensors, which removes the option of adding a fuel-booster plug to the bike. As the booster plug reports a lower temperature reading to the ECU than is actually the case ("tricking" the ECU into squirting more fuel) once the booster plug temperature value is compared with other sensors then the MIL light will activate.
 

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Sure, that's exactly what I've done. However there is no way to verify that is actually what you started with. Maybe the factory has an updated map that hasn't been published, or what if you bought your bike used and you have no idea what map is currently installed?

I'm just saying it's stupid that you can't retrieve the current program from the ECU with the Bluetooth dongle.

I don't know if it's possible with a wired connection but I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere. From everything I've read it sounds like it's impossible to read the current program for a '22 Bobber using TuneECU.

Not a huge deal, just seems kinda dumb. Maybe it was done specifically so you couldn't reverse engineer maps that people have for sale and "protect" in TuneECU?
Mox, I believe the OEM maps on TuneECU developer's website are labelled to coincide with geographic locales and VINs. Takes a bit of digging to correlate the specific map to your country. (Edit: There's a pdf that covers that topic at the bottom of the map listing in the above link.) TuneECU website mentions these are not maintained to reflect any updated maps, so more research required.

You can hold multiple maps in the folder on your device and choose among them. So why wouldn't you be able to tweak whatever map and then save it as a new file to upload to the ECU?

As I recall you need a cable in order to download a map from the ECU. And we can't do that with our bikes. See listing and requirements here.

As far as protecting maps is concerned, intellectual property is at the other end of the spectrum from NFTs, so yeah, technology is doing its utmost to protect the originator's creation. The raison d'etre for hackers...
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
It's unfortunate that the TuneECU map site isn't quite up to date (my VIN is quite a bit later than anything listed there).

I'm fairly certain I have the correct stock map to start with.

I've made some small changes and if it gets above freezing today I'll reprogram the bike and go for a short chilly ride :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I have read all the documentation and I've been using the compare function a lot. It's a really great feature.

First I used it to see if the published maps were any different in the various regions (31090 & 31091 for example are identical). Then I used it to compare a map I got from someone else to the stock map so I could see what had been done.

I recently discovered a feature I didn't know about - if you change the view to "graphic mode" in the menu, you can select a particular RPM, then select throttle % points and move the entire graph by either percentages or absolute values. Super useful for adjusting "L" maps that don't have associated "Trim" maps:

Rectangle Line Font Slope Screenshot
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Update: I just reprogrammed 31091 to the bike and went for a quick ride. Runs great, just like it did before I began.

Conclusion: I'm 99% sure 31091 is the stock map for this bike.

It was only 30 degrees F and the sun just went down so I was freezing my nads off, but you just can't go slow on this bike. What's wind chill at 70MPH with ambient at 30 degrees? It's COLD, that's what!

I LOVE THIS BIKE SO MUCH! HAH! :)

I've owned something like 25 bikes and this is my favorite so far. My Daytona 675 comes in a close second, then probably my KTM Duke in 3rd place.

Triumph absolutely NAILED it with the Bobber. God **** I love this thing.

More to come ...
 

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Good to hear! I do believe the fueling was mostly spot on with the Bobber, except for the low speed/low rpm slight chug. It is the same with my Monster Evo and it runs terrible right in the range it is tested for emissions. With the DNK tune, it also adjusts the throttle sensitivity and maintains 90%+ throttle opening through redline. Whenever I miss the lazy, cruiser throttle response I switch to rain mode, which feels a lot like the factory map incidentally. I believe all of these adjustments can be done with TuneEcu as well for the tinkerer at heart.
 

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Best of luck to you Mox with your tuning efforts. I'll be watching for your posts in that regard.

Gotta say I'm pleased that DNK has invested the time and energy to come up with maps that work for those of us lacking in initiative or the capacity to do it for ourselves. Best money spent on my bike thus far, by a long shot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I decided it would be best to follow the Scientific Method and change only 1 thing with each attempt.

Yesterday I added +5% to F1 & F2 fuel maps.

I figured A)these bikes are lean from the factory and B)shorter, free-flowing exhaust probably makes things even more lean. So in my mind, adding a little fuel across the entire spectrum seemed pretty reasonable. The F trims are percentages, so this works for all RPM ranges - e.g. at the low end, the change is very small and at the high end, it becomes much greater.

The F maps are basically a graph of the volumetric efficiency of the engine. I figured with a better exhaust, I could expect 5% or more increase in VE. Seems like a reasonable assumption. It's not perfect by any means, but I'm just noodling around so if I'm wrong I can just revert to the stock map. No big deal.

This is a super easy thing to do - load up the stock map (31091 in my case), make sure Edit->F Trims Global is checked (this just means trim is the same for both F1 & F2 maps i.e. cylinders), put "5" in all cells and commit the trims.

I then compared my modified map to the original and confirmed that 5% was added to each cell.

I flashed the ECU once again, warmed up the bike (did not bother to reset adaptions) and went for a ride.

SUCCESS!!

The bike has more power, the throttle is smoother, and it even sounds better too! The change is noticeable. You can feel and hear the additional power. It's never pulled this hard or sounded as mean.

SUPER STOKED!

I really didn't expect such a massive change. The sound when you get on the throttle now is just intoxicating. Going up a big hill near my house, it just pulls like a freight train.

Next I will add 5% to the L maps and see what effect that has. But for a few days, I'm just going to ride the **** out of this thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Update:

I added 5% to the L maps. Reset adaptions & went for a ride.

Nope!

Throttle is super snatchy, acceleration is herky-jerky, and there is a ton more popping on decel. Even had a few gnarly backfires. Return to idle is slowed significantly. All this indicates a too-rich mixture.

Also I noticed something really interesting. In the TuneECU "Sensors" screen I added A/F sensor voltage, and short-term fuel trims. Watching these values change with the old tune vs new, I could see some obvious problems. With stock L maps, the A/F sensor is quickly changing voltage and short-term trims are moderate (3-5% in either direction). After adding 5% to L maps, A/F sensor voltage changed at a much slower rate and short-term trims were much higher (up to -12%). This indicates closed loop was working really hard to lean things out and A/F sensor was operating beyond its nominal conditions (it really only works around 14.5 A/F ratio). So this confirms that L maps are used primarily at idle, with the system attempting to get to the A/F map settings you set there.

Conclusion: L maps are used for closed loop, partial throttle and decel. Adding fuel caused poor rideability, jerky throttle response, backfiring on decel and slow return to idle.

I returned to my previous tune and all these problems went away.

I think I'm done for now. I think there is more power to unleash but I'm reluctant to change ignition timing without a knock sensor. I can't hear anything over the exhaust and wind noise when I'm riding. I would never hear the engine detonating. When I get on a dyno in the spring I'll try adding some timing and get some real data.

For now I'm pretty dang happy with just 5% additional fuel in the F maps across the board.
 

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Sounds like you're on the right track to getting the most out of the motor. Post up your dyno results when you get them.
 
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