Making Bobber Black as powerful as Thruxton R?? - Triumph Bobber Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-30-2018, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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Making Bobber Black as powerful as Thruxton R??

So after looking at the specifications, the engines on both bikes have the same bore, stroke, and are both 1200. Only thing I can tell that’s different is the compression ratio and I know the gearing is different

With all that said though, I would think if you got the compression ratio up, did an exhaust, tune, air filter, and maybe if needed change the gearing, I would think that you could have that sweet oh so sexy Bobber look but with the power from the Thruxton?


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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-30-2018, 06:13 PM
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This exact thread is floating around here somewhere. The consensus is bolt ons won't do much, so you'll need to look at engine work for any significant power increases.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-30-2018, 06:15 PM Thread Starter
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This exact thread is floating around here somewhere. The consensus is bolt ons won't do much, so you'll need to look at engine work for any significant power increases.


Do you know what the difference is between the two engines?


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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-31-2018, 10:33 AM
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Usually several mods are made by the manufacturer to alter an engine's characteristics based on the application. The exact same engine block and piston drivetrain is only one component. The head's valves, grind, cams, and ECU Map all change the engine's torque and hp curves. The Bobber engine was tuned for a cruiser application, lots of low end torque and a smooth linear torque curve without a sharp change with rpm. I would assume the Truxton has a performance curve which would have lower torque but higher hp at higher rpms. So for those that are used to keeping the engine at high revs there is more available horsepower at high revs but less torque throughout the curve with a rising curve rather than a flatter one, this will give a greater top end speed.

For almost all who buy a Bobber or Speedmaster for that matter, they will prefer the riding experience the way it is. For most of the types of riding they will do they engine will actually "feel" stronger with better low end acceleration, as torque is what matters. This is why electric cars feel so fast, they have immediate low end torque with an absolutely flat curve to terminal rpm.

So I am suggesting that you ride a Truxton first prior to making changes you may not like it.

Example. I recently completed a Stage IV to my 2014 HD Road King CVO. Increased displacement from 110 to 117. BUT I chose a cam with a flat torque curve from 2000 all the way to 5500 (the real rpm range on a Harley) and had a DYNO and Map created to enhance low and midrange torque rather than high rev HP. A buddy of mine with a similar bike but with a cam and tuned for maximin HP tried mine. I have 14 more ft-lbs or torque and he has 20 more hp. His bike has a faster top end speed. However, he is having his redone to more closely duplicate my bike, as mine is much more rideable, and smooth throughout the rpm range, but not only that I can do early upshifts and not downshift if I choose and he cannot, he has to maintain at least 1000 higher rpm than I do. On paper one might think that his is the better setup--however real world riding is the test.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-31-2018, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
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Making Bobber Black as powerful as Thruxton R??

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Originally Posted by DOCGSS View Post
Usually several mods are made by the manufacturer to alter an engine's characteristics based on the application. The exact same engine block and piston drivetrain is only one component. The head's valves, grind, cams, and ECU Map all change the engine's torque and hp curves. The Bobber engine was tuned for a cruiser application, lots of low end torque and a smooth linear torque curve without a sharp change with rpm. I would assume the Truxton has a performance curve which would have lower torque but higher hp at higher rpms. So for those that are used to keeping the engine at high revs there is more available horsepower at high revs but less torque throughout the curve with a rising curve rather than a flatter one, this will give a greater top end speed.



For almost all who buy a Bobber or Speedmaster for that matter, they will prefer the riding experience the way it is. For most of the types of riding they will do they engine will actually "feel" stronger with better low end acceleration, as torque is what matters. This is why electric cars feel so fast, they have immediate low end torque with an absolutely flat curve to terminal rpm.



So I am suggesting that you ride a Truxton first prior to making changes you may not like it.



Example. I recently completed a Stage IV to my 2014 HD Road King CVO. Increased displacement from 110 to 117. BUT I chose a cam with a flat torque curve from 2000 all the way to 5500 (the real rpm range on a Harley) and had a DYNO and Map created to enhance low and midrange torque rather than high rev HP. A buddy of mine with a similar bike but with a cam and tuned for maximin HP tried mine. I have 14 more ft-lbs or torque and he has 20 more hp. His bike has a faster top end speed. However, he is having his redone to more closely duplicate my bike, as mine is much more rideable, and smooth throughout the rpm range, but not only that I can do early upshifts and not downshift if I choose and he cannot, he has to maintain at least 1000 higher rpm than I do. On paper one might think that his is the better setup--however real world riding is the test.


Thank you for the thought out response, I know the ECU map and everything is important to the the bike, in these specific bikes (Thruxton and Bobber) I just felt like for as much as the bike costs, there’s no reason it shouldn’t have 85+HP and around the same amount in torque, I know torque is an important factor especially as far as the bike feeling fast, but I want a good top speed too
(For the record I think the Thruxton should have higher HP and maybe a tad more torque as well, along with every single Harley lol)

I just see bikes like he VMAX (and yes, the Bobber is beautiful and I know there is a sizable price gap between them) but compared to a Harley, there the same price, but
VMAX=170hp And 112torque
Harley 114 M8 Fat Bob= 95ishHP and 112torque

I just dont understand why Harley, Triumph, and Indian make bikes like this that don’t compete power wise with the “big four”. They have a lot going for them, but they cost more and don’t have as much power.

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-31-2018, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucros View Post

I just dont understand why Harley, Triumph, and Indian make bikes like this that don’t compete power wise with the “big four”. They have a lot going for them, but they cost more and don’t have as much power.

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I sorry to break the news to you but there's more to bikes than speed and power!

Triumph DO make bikes that compete with the 'big four' whoever they are now? I rode a Street Triple last week and that was as fast as f***!

But the Bobber is playing a different game and you either get or you don't. Maybe it's to do with the ageing biking population but over the last decade performance bike sales have been heading down while retros have been on the up.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-31-2018, 12:34 PM
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The VMAX is a V$ motor much easier to make HP. You need to focus on twins.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-31-2018, 12:41 PM
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I owned a V-Max for many a year (pic shown when new circa 1999).

I really loved all the power and enjoyed riding it year round, although if I'm honest the English winters were a little hairy with all that power on tap..

It was one of those bikes that I really loved riding every day and still have very fond memories off. Probably one of the most enjoyable bikes I have ever owned. However when I saw a Bobber for the first time it was just love at first sight

What can I say I'm just a visual type of chap with no regard for practicality or horse power for that matter So for me personally - my Bobber 'Charlotte' just does it...

Cheerio,

Roy
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-31-2018, 12:43 PM
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Thruxton has higher compression pistons = more power. I will likely dig into the motor once the warranty expires and drop a set in. They aren't terribly expensive , but it isn't cheap either. Haven't investigated it much beyond that. @trirocket3 has done a number of mods (head work , etc....) and has a firebreather , but the ECM on the Bobber has a 5-6 gear restrictor built in , so there is both mechanical and electronic wizardry at play here. They are great bikes and a wonderful platform , and they run better than expected if you ask me. Mine , with my girthiness (I made that word up...) gets up to 80 out of the hole with enough satisfaction to keep a smile on my face. Much after that and getting caught equals big trouble. Try enjoying it as a roadster and less like a sport bike and you might just see where we're all coming from.

So far behind , I think I'm in first place.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-31-2018, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bobber-Bomb View Post
I sorry to break the news to you but there's more to bikes than speed and power!



Triumph DO make bikes that compete with the 'big four' whoever they are now? I rode a Street Triple last week and that was as fast as f***!



But the Bobber is playing a different game and you either get or you don't. Maybe it's to do with the ageing biking population but over the last decade performance bike sales have been heading down while retros have been on the up.


Idk my only point of reference is a Vulcan 500 lol (my first bike) and I love the Bobber look but it worries me at highway speed that it won’t have enough passing power, and your right triumph does have the Daytona 675 and stuff I honesty forgot about those lol


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